BUDS DIGEST 005 / FEATURE
BOWEN
& JOEL:
FIRE ISLAND FANTASY
Photographed by JASON RODGERS
Styled by MATTHEW SIMONELLI
Makeup by LARAMIE GLEN
Bowen Yang and Joel Kim Booster photographed in YER WON by Jason Rodgers in Brooklyn, NY. March 2022.
Crafty comedian and buzzing actor, Saturday Night Live’s always entertaining BOWEN YANG chats with his good bud, the hysterical writer and comic JOEL KIM BOOSTER in this highly connected conversation for Buds Digest.
YANG and BOOSTER get serious, silly and stoned while unpacking the origin of their friendship, questioning assumed status in Hollywood and dishing details on their new collaborative rom-com Fire Island, out this June. The two long time pals bounce back and forth with ease and engaged understanding, exploring their deep kinship, favorite memories and what the future holds. Read on for more from Bowen and Joel.
Pajama sets by Dorso Nightwear. Jewelry by Julia Shiplett.
BOWEN YANG: Are you smoking for this?
JOEL KIM BOOSTER: I can!
BY: You don't have to.
JKB: Can you? Do you have to work later?
BY: No, I'm off this week.
JKB: Oh, then let me get my pen. I'm smoking a Provisions sativa pen and I also did a Kanha Nano edible. I was showing you these the other day. Free plug. These are enhanced nano molecular gummies and they start working within 10 minutes. Changed my life.
BY: You gave me a little bit of that the other week and it was really wonderful. I felt both creative and euphoric, which is hard to come by. I'm smoking a Sundae School pre-roll joint.
JKB: I love Sundae School. I love those joints. I wish I could smoke regular weed more often, but my poor little lungs just can't handle it anymore.
BY: I've heard this excuse so many times, not even with weed-related things. This is how far back it goes. I was “Miss Soul Cycle: New York City” for a time.
JKB: Oh, you were addicted.
BY: And I kept trying to get you to come to a class and you said, “my poor little lungs.”
JKB: I don't do cardio. I'm allergic.
BY: I think about this often. About how you manage to look the way you do without cardio.
JKB: Cardio is poison. You don't need it. Cycling is poison. Juice is poison. Most juice is poisonous because it's too sugary.
BY: It's all sugar. I know that the cleanses are kind of a sham.
JKB: I think we should talk about our friendship. I think we should start from the beginning. I feel bad because I feel like every time we talk about the genesis of our friendship, I don't wanna cast the person who is responsible as a villain, because he's not. But, on the third day I moved to New York, I ran into our mutual friend on the train and he immediately said, pleasantries out of the way, “oh my god, you need to know Bowen Yang.” And I said, “why,” and he said, “well, he's gay and Asian and he does comedy.” Immediately my antennae were like: something is wrong. I will say again, this person is not a villain, but he is white.
“When I was writing it, it was always going to be you and me as far as I was concerned.”
BY: The fact that he led with that, bulldozed through the pleasantries and the small talk makes me believe that he was just so excited to tell you about me. I don't know if that's sweet or if that's even scarier.
JKB: But he made good. He put us on a Facebook message together.
BY: I did the thing of wiping my entire Facebook a few years ago and every now and then I get a pang of nostalgic mission searching, wishing I could find the DM where this person said this to me…
JKB: It is really sad what a living record it became.
BY: Think about the destiny in that little chat window. All of the little friendship threads that were braided in little helices from that one Facebook message. I heard the same exact thing from this person at an improv show and normally when someone says “you remind me of this Asian person,” I fully roll my eyes back into my skull but something about this guy, hearing the name Joel Kim Booster…he sounds interesting, I thought. I don't believe in these fated-feelings that people get every now and then, but there was something very fateful about that interaction with our mutual friend.
JKB: I found the message and I'll read: “You two need to know each other. Not only because you are two very funny Asian stand ups…”
BY: Not only!
JKB: “…but because you're both great people and you're both gay.” And then I said, “oh hai” and then you responded in turn, “oh hai” – which is a moment – and then you said, “is this the part where we both cancel each other out and disappear?” And I said, “I don't remember where you start and I end anymore.” We were very funny. Then we literally start talking about the movie Looper (2012) and we have a very labored conversation about Looper where neither of us are being authentic. I think we were both trying to be polite: “Emily blunt is great! The world building!” We talked about the world building in Looper in this first message, which is so funny to me. I think the conversation would be much different now if we talked about Looper.
BY: It would be. By the way, I fully forgot that we had this side conversation about Looper. Was [redacted] chiming in too?
JKB: No, literally just us talking about how it wasn't just an Inception (2010) rip off. Your observation. I say – and this is so embarrassing, “really good film. You are definitely Joseph Gordon Levitt, full of vigor and optimism and I am grumpy older you who just wants to kill a child.” Then you said “Emily Blunt is A+.” I think I was trying so hard to be funny because when you are introduced as a comedian, it is the worst thing in the world, especially when you're being introduced to another comedian, because, unlike any other job, it is the one job you are expected to be good at in the real world, outside of the office, outside of everything. It's so stressful. I was really trying, I was really going for it.
Beach jumpers by Triple Cream. Hats by Marrakshi Life.
Sunglasses by Cutlter and Gross. Swim briefs by Tight Tams. Jewelry by Julia Shiplett.
BY: Well, that Joseph Gordon-Levitt/Bruce Willis joke made me laugh in the year 2022 and yes, you're so right, not only to be introduced as a comedian to another comedian, but as a gay-Asian-nice-person, these project a lot of expectations onto the other person.
JKB: This was our only conversation for years. At least a year.
BY: Before we talk about the next conversation we had when we met each other in real life, should we talk about Looper now?
JKB: What do you remember about Looper?
BY: I remember Joseph Gordon-Levitt in the first scenes walking through some sexy Chinese nightclub and I remember really enjoying his lips, his Bruce Willis lips. They did a bunch of CGI on him.
JKB: I remember that as well. I remember being surprised, as you stated, because it wasn't just an Inception rip off. I remember it being paced much slower. I thought the whole thing was gonna be like, chase, chase, chase, chase. But, instead it is a lot of hanging out with Emily Blunt at the farmhouse, which I sort of love.
BY: Can I confess that I don't remember any of Emily Blunt in this movie? And that feels sinful.
JKB: That does feel crazy, because you were the one who brought her up in this conversation.
BY: Paul Dano was in this?
JKB: Yeah, babe.
BY: Piper Perabo... and Jeff Daniels was in these opening scenes. For me to remember Jeff Daniels and not Emily Blunt…
JKB: Who are you?
BY: I don't know. Wow. Things have really changed since 2014.
JKB: No, 2013.
BY: I've been telling people eight years when you're telling me it's been nine.
JKB: It's been nine; eight and a half, nine.
BY: And then our next interaction was…
JKB: At your show, Ethnic Realness at The Pit.
BY: The name. I don't really stand by the name anymore.
JKB: It was a moment in time. Everything must be judged in the context of the time that it was created. I think “Ethnic Realness,” at that moment, made a lot of sense.
BY: It made a lot of sense. It was a very sort of fun name for people to sort of latch onto. I remember promoting the show outside The Duplex to a drag queen and she laughed at the name and I decided not to change it. I was thinking about changing it to something else, but it made someone laugh. We met at that show. Matt Rogers was at that show.
JKB: The show was co-hosted with Oscar Montoya, shout out. Star. Check out The Minx on HBO Max. Full star. I'm so happy for him. I don't think he was there that day but Matt was. Who could have ever guessed you two would change my life so thoroughly over the course of eight years. It is so wild because it was such a casual meeting. I did my set. I think we had a couple of drinks at The Pit afterwards and that was pretty much it. I don't really remember the early stages of our friendship. I don't remember how I forced my way into your family.
BY: I don't remember this at all but I also am with you that there's this black box in my memory between that first meeting and us completely just confiding in each other all these wild things. Maybe it was just a zero to 60 thing. Maybe we started going out together to the club?
JKB: This is sad, I think, but part of the trauma bonding that happened was over our shared sexual history which included a lot of overlap at the time.
BY: That's what it was.
JKB: And one very specific person that caused us both a lot of mental anguish. Actually Asians all across the city, I think, a lot of mental anguish
BY: He was community dick. But it was community dick that was traumatizing a little bit.
Quilted beach sets by Farewell Frances. Sandals by Suicoke. Sunglasses by Cutler and Gross.
JKB: We were both very young when we were involved with this person. There were a couple others too, over the course of the many years that we were in New York. At least three that I can think of. I think that was a big part of why we bonded quickly.
BY: Since the beginning of our friendship there was this shared frustration of why do we get confused for the other so often. Even the more obvious ways than the nuanced ways that are different. I was doing dorky, corny-ass sketch comedy and improv shows at a handful of venues. You were hopscotching all around the city to different open mics and stand up shows. I would say we were both on completely different paths, but then we would intersect on certain things. But it was not that common. It was never going out after running into each other at a show.
JKB: I do think this was still a time when, unless it was specifically a show like Ethnic Realness, we weren't on a lot of shows together because [bookers] considered us redundant if we were both on a show together. I remember going to see your solo show at The Pit…
BY: Oh, my god.
JKB: And you know this as a comedian, especially in that time of our lives, you barely have time to go to see other people's shows. You’re so busy and we were so busy. But I remember it was a watershed moment in my life and my career when I decided, in that moment, I refused to see this person as competition. I am going to support my friend because he's my friend. I loved that solo show by the way and I remember it very well and I think you should return to it. I think you should bring it off Broadway, bitch.
BY: That'll never happen, but I love that that stands out to you for the decision that you made for us. I feel like this is the remarkable thing, as often as we've been externally pitted against each other, confused for the other person, been considered redundant…
JKB: Even when people say, “well I like one, but I don't like the other,” as though that makes sense. Why bring my name up? You can just say you like Bowen Yang. It doesn't make any sense.
BY: I feel like that is something that must be an intentioned thing and it cannot be the unspoken or externalized thing of being jealous or competitive from afar and then kind of distorting it when we're in person. We've all kind of run into that in some context, but never, never with you, the person that people would expect you to.
JKB: On paper, we check a lot of the same boxes to certain kinds of people. Very superficial boxes. I think we check the same, surface level stuff. I don't wanna move into being “soundbite-y” about the movie, but when I was writing it, it was always going to be you and me as far as I was concerned. I think we both sort of realized – and this is still probably true – there weren't gonna be a lot of opportunities for us to do something together. So, it was one of those Mrs. Galloway moments. I was like, “well, I'll write it myself!” We were talking about this the other night. That's why this moment in our lives, truly from the first day of shooting to the day this movie premieres, is gonna be such a special moment in my life that I will always think about because I got to share it with you. Knock on wood that we have more opportunities to co-star in a movie together, but if it doesn't happen I'll always remember this time very fondly and how formative it was for me as a creative to get to work with you and work with so many of my close friends.
Cherry print sets by Keith Kelly. Sandals by Suicoke.
BY: But for you to shoot for the fucking moon on your first project like this. I'm just attitude of gratitude. I was just grateful the whole time, still am, will always be, that I got to hitch a ride, because it felt like it was this complete gift. Like, like… sorry, the weed is really hitting me.
JKB: Me too.
BY: I'm having trouble articulating but I never expected to get to be number two on the call sheet of a big, studio romcom with my best friend. And then I have my other best friends around me involved. When does that ever happen for anybody? That is such a thing that I refuse to take for granted, ever.
JKB: It feels like I'm peaking.
BY: No, no no…
JKB: I mean in terms of the connection I have to this project. We’re both moving on. We are both doing other things. There will be bigger things for both of us, but I don't know that there will ever be something that felt as good as doing this movie did.
BY: It made the process, start to finish, incredibly emotional because it was – and now not to get too actorly about this – but there were aspects of this character Howie that I play that I had to really marry with Jane Bennett as a character to be like, okay, where does that overlap? How is that different? I had to really dig up these insecure feelings that I thought I had grown past. It was really challenging and beautiful to reflect on the person I was back when you and I first started going to Fire Island together and mapping it onto this character and then sitting in that, day to day for the five weeks that we shot this. This is all to say that doing this movie was a perfect little time portal into that moment in our friendship and in our lives.
JKB: I asked a lot of you in this movie. You have to do a lot more heavy lifting in terms of acting than I think anybody else in the movie has to.
BY: I don't think that's true.
“Some of my favorite friendship memories, with anybody, are when I get stoned with you and we watch any old movie or any old reality show.”
JKB: I think it definitely is because everybody else, myself included…I am pretty similar to my character in the movie, and there are definitely differences in your character and I don't wanna sound too crass about it because I don't see it this way, but I really did mine some deep shit that we’ve talked about over the course of our friendship and made you relive it in a really visceral way in this movie. There will be a number of eyes on it, hopefully a lot, but who knows, at least a few eyes on it. And that's really vulnerable. We definitely did talk about it while I was writing it and you read it before a lot of other people, but I don't think I ever straight up asked you “is this okay?” I think I just gave it to you to read and when that wasn't one of your big notes, I was like, oh, okay then I guess this is okay. I really do appreciate you doing it so completely and doing it so beautifully. Shout out to [director] Andrew Ahn for supporting us both through this process. I will say most of my emotional heavy lifting was off camera. You had to do it all on camera.
BY: Both versions, both flavors of emotional heavy lifting.
JKB: Andrew is a genius, first of all, but also just one of the kindest people I think I've ever worked with in this industry. I don't think anybody else could have held both of our hands in the way that he did. Me, sort of spiraling off camera and you having to go through these really emotional places on camera. It was like the perfect, perfect, perfect person to have.
BY: Do you think he expected that from both of us? Probably as a queer, Asian person himself and as an experienced director, I'm sure the thought occurred to him that this is a movie that's grounded in something that's very real about the Asian-American experience, in terms of being gay, but also tacit about those realities. I think he probably knew that these two people were gonna undergo some emotional journey themselves while we made this.
JKB: I'm so glad that this wasn’t in his first movie too, because I think he knew from talking to me that this was gonna be a really tough process for me because it was my first. There's a lot for me creatively and professionally riding on this movie. It's so funny we're talking about this in sort of the vacuum of the past. We have no idea how this movie is going to be received. I'm very proud of it no matter how it's received. Reading the script, I'm sure [Ahn] knew and was aware that you were gonna have to go through these places. I don't think he was aware that I would be experimenting with not taking my medication at that time, how that would affect my entire being as an executive producer of the movie rather than an actor. I think I just get to be fun and snarky in the movie. I don't ever have to go to dark places. You have to go to dark places.
BY: He knew that you were the writer, the lead and the executive producer on this film. I think he probably went into this knowing [that he had to] make sure you were taken care of. And his job as a director was to make this as easy as possible for him. Not easy, but as intuitive or as unobstructed as possible. I think he did such a good job. If people knew the solutions you guys had to come up with together, the half of it, I think they would be very blown away.
Beach sets by Marrakshi Life. Sunglasses by Cutler and Gross. Jewelry by Julia Shiplett. Sandals by Suicoke.
JKB: It's funny when people ask me if I'm ever interested in writing something else about Fire Island or any of these other gay destinations and I'm like, no. Nightmare scenario shooting on that island. On one hand, a dream, but just logistically from a production standpoint, a full, living nightmare. I will never do that again. I will never do voiceover ever. Those are my two big takeaways from doing this movie. For different reasons, I will never set it in a secluded, remote location and I will never write something for myself where I'm in every single scene of the movie.
Do you think the movie captures what it was like in those early years on Fire Island? Let's be real. Our trips to Fire Island today, very different from our trips to Fire Island when we were sleeping 16 to a three bedroom house.
BY: Exactly. We're very lucky that they're different now. I think it 100% captures the full range and the full gamut of general experiences of Fire Island for people. I've said about this movie in my viewings of it that it scratched the itch I had to go back. Especially in the winter a lot of queer people miss it and, you know, are sharing their photos from the summer on stories or whatever… sad thing. But for me, watching the movie, it feels like I just came back. It feels like I went and I came back. There's something about familiarizing the audience with what it is, introducing all of these beautiful parts of the island, these events that happen on the island every week, without a surrogate. You're coming in with this group of people that have gone to the island so many times before and then you're welcoming the audience in with your writing where it feels like they're along for the trip.
JKB: I read the comments, unfortunately, and there are a lot of people who wanna dismiss this movie because it takes place on Fire Island. Specifically, I think there are a lot of queer, young people of color who don't have the means because, let's face it, Fire island is impenetrable economically for a lot of people. I think it was easier for us because we lived in New York and we had 16 friends laying around that could split a house with us. I get that. I understand what the island's reputation is. But when I think about Fire Island, I don't think about being surrounded by white muscle gays – nothing wrong with that. I think about getting wasted with you, doing acid with you, being surrounded by a diverse – not even just the surface stuff – but just people who weren't all comedians, who came from different places and experiences. It was a formative, life-changing experience going, especially in those first few years, especially when we “weren't supposed to be there” because we were poor and we were Asian and we weren't, you know, the picture of sexual attainability. It really did change the way I looked at myself.
BY: I feel like there would've been this crazy butterfly effect had you not been there at the same time that I was. I feel like I would've just thought about how I was surrounded by a bunch of, you know, white muscle gays or something. Firstly, the reality that Fire Island has this sort of financial barrier to entry is kind of mapped perfectly onto Regency, England in terms of Jane Austin's social observations and that's what you're doing in the movie. But secondly, it makes it so that when you go there, you value your time, which is not to tie it to something monetary, but to tie it to this feeling that you're somewhere special, as long as you're with the right people.
JKB: So much of our experience on Fire Island is like, yeah, there are shitty people that are there. It’s some of the worst gay people in our community who are able to go because they happen to be rich and beautiful, but dealing with those people was never the overwhelming impression that I was left with when I left that island. It was literally being gay and stupid with you and our friends. The freedom that the island affords, being all gay men, does not stop because there are shitty people there. Every gay person should get to experience a week without straight people. That is it. The freedom that comes with that experience is so life affirming and changing, especially when you go with the right people that I've said this before: I want to become rich enough that I can start funding a gay birthright for young queers who are too broke to go to Fire Island. I wanna fund their trips because everybody should be able to have a week surrounded by gay people and no straight people.
BY: And there will be some militaristic propaganda element to that.
JKB: I was trying to think of my favorite experience with you on Fire Island..
BY: It’s the acid trip.
JKB: It has to be the acid trip. Our acid trip on Fire Island was the movie Mother! (2017), but delightful and fun.
BY: The house literally was alive. In our movie, I think the only cannabis usage in the entire film is…
JKB: I take a hit before I pass it to you. There was a lot more cannabis usage in the film but it happens in scenes that got cut. But, I will say it was really important to me for some reason that these characters be stoners, because I don't think there's enough gay-stoner representation and not since John Cho have we seen a lot of Asian-stoner representation either. I guess Nora [Lum] is doing that. Nora's showing up for the community.
BY: Nora can act a bong rip really, really well. She's a good actor. I do think it's fun and apropo to point out that some of my favorite friendship memories, with anybody, are when I get stoned with you and we watch any old movie or any old reality show. My true picture of relaxation and joy and happiness is you and Matt, just sitting with me in someone's living room and watching an episode of The Real Housewives, for example,
JKB: Truly that and add in a good Postmates order and it's heaven. It's absolute heaven. I think especially now that our lives are changing a little bit because of our, you know, I'll be brave enough to say it, success. I do think that those moments are so much harder to come by. So when we do just get to sit in Matt (Rogers)'s apartment and get stoned and order food and watch Real Housewives, I savor them so much more because that just used to be our lives. The ratio has shifted now and we don't get to do it. Especially because we're on different coasts now. It's not fair that it doesn't happen every week.
BY: I think we'll return to it. I don't think this is a linear sort of thing. I feel like we're gonna do a thing like Tina Fey and Amy Poehler do, like every seven years, and team up again for a buddy comedy. Not that this is what Fire Island is, but best case scenario.
JKB: It's not, not, though.
BY: It's not, not, but I think we will find these little touchstones throughout whatever time we have left on this planet.
JKB: Who's Tina and who's Amy? I think you're Amy and I'm Tina.
BY: Really?
JKB: Yeah.
BY: I was gonna say you're Amy and I'm Tina because you are more fun and you're more in touch with your inner child and I'm a little too cerebral for my own good sometimes – not that's what Tina is but…
JKB: That makes sense. I can go with that. Well, we're both blonde right now. I'm so happy and glad that we aren't weird professional adversaries – and god knows I have ‘em – because we are both aware of the struggle of being seen as representatives of both of our communities and the sort of backlash that can happen from both of our communities because we're not doing it right. I feel much less alone and much less crazy about it because you are my best friend, you know? Whenever I see some crazy Reddit post about how “Hollywood only supports gay Asian men” – which is so stupid – my experience of reading those posts is always like oh, this sucks and then I get to the part where they mention us both by name as an example and I'm like, oh, both of us got mentioned! Seeing both of our names listed as “enemies number one” of effeminate Asian men who are promoted in Hollywood…
BY: As if we are the most successful Asian men in Hollywood.
JKB: It really drives me crazy. I think you may have cracked the IMDB top 100. I don't think I have yet. You go and look at that list of the hundred “most working actors who are Asian men in Hollywood” and neither of us crack the top 50. It's such an insane assertion. I think if I didn't have you in my corner with me, experiencing that at the same time, I would be much more likely to adjust my behavior or my work to sort of combat that. I feel like people wanna project onto us this idea that this is an act.
BY: That we've conspired in some way.
JKB: Knowing you so well, this is just who we are. We're not putting something on because we think it'll make us more successful, which is such a ridiculous assertion. We are just being ourselves through our work and I never wanna change. We're in it together.
BY: I feel the same exact way. You're one of my few friends where I think we are equally matched in terms of turning to each other and saying some sentimental thing. I'm normally the person who's just like ~bottom eyes emoji~ “oh my god, I love you, we're such good friends.” You and I saw each other this weekend and we even had mutual, separate moments of “I'm really glad you're here. I'm really glad we're friends. I'm so excited for the movie to come out;” all these things.
JKB: That's a byproduct of getting to see you once every couple of months now. The other problem is that we keep seeing each other in these sort of big marque moments in our life. Honestly, seeing you at the The Lost City (2022) premier the other night, watching you on the red carpet doing all of the little press junky things, it was really special. And you're not like the star of the movie or anything, but it was like this moment where I was…
BY: Thank you for reminding me.
JKB: I am 10 feet away from someone who is leveling up right now. Watching you get caressed by Sandra Bullock in between the cast photos that they were taking, I was just like, “oh my god, my friend is friends with Sandra Bullock!” I keep repeating myself, but I'm so glad I get to be there to see that happen. If we weren't friends or if we kept each other at arm's length, because we happen to be up for the same shit sometimes, I would've missed that. It would've been so stupid if we weren't friends.
BY: It would've been stupid, but it makes more sense that we wouldn't be friends to the people who say, “well, it seems like just an act.” Why would we set people up for confusion? Why would we do that? For both of us, at various points, to make the decision to just be there for each other is huge; trajectory altering in so many ways, because then this movie wouldn't be happening. This Buds photo shoot wouldn't have happened.
JKB: Yeah. Which, can I say, I hate getting my picture taken, but this photo shoot was so fun that I didn't even think about it. I hate these photo shoots, but I loved this one.
BY: I love you so much. I'm just lightly stoned right now.
JKB: Yeah, no, I'm pretty fucking stoned and I have to go and get my haircut. So, I guess I'm taking an Uber. Safety first.
